I sometimes wonder....

[curmugeon]

Warning... this is going to piss off some people.

As I read the interview of Senator Charles Schumer with Nachum Segal about United States policy toward Israel, I wonder if the Jewish lobby is equally as bad as the Fundamental Christian community. They both seem to place their religion before loyalty to the United States and in effect are acting as agents of a foreign government. I guess as a secular humanist I find that religion can be used as a moral compass but I expect my government to respect my freedom from religion. Religion ha been the agent of too many conflicts, as religious leaders are human and thus let greed, and self interests cloud their dogma. I find a lot of things Israel does are not in the interests of world peace or the benefit of humanity as a whole. Maybe those Senators, like Schumer, should think about who they represent, and keep in mind the oath of office they took.

Comments

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

Schumer. Otherwise, people might not know who you are talking about.

Also... I have yet to see you take aim at The Family or C Street, or any of the fundamentalist Christian people... Westboro is another example.

Someone might think you hated Israel...

I don't hate Israel...

[n6vfp.livejournal.com]

I have a strong dislike of the leadership an military policies of Israel. I am very aware of The family and C Street..I recall posting a link to an article about both in the past. I have also linked to some of the outrageous stunts by the Westboro Baptist Church. I do think that if you hold public office you duty should be to the interests of United States, not to the interests of a foreign government. I have known people who have worked for human rights organizations in Gaza and the West Bank and have read their accounts of life under Israeli occupation. I've also read their accounts of the actions of Israeli settlers in these areas and do not think that we should support Israeli efforts to expand settlements in the West Bank no matter if they think they have a religious mandate to occupy these lands. Israel has a right to exist, but it does not have a right to deny justice to Palestinian people.

Re: I don't hate Israel...

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying that the Israeli government is perfect and good. I don't think what is going on there is good either.

I was just commenting on the tone of some of your more recent posts in the political realm.

Maybe I'm overly sensitive (I've been accused of being such in the past by others), but some of the language you have used has seemed to be inflammatory, and IMO there is too much of that on all sides lately.

Re: I don't hate Israel...

[n6vfp.livejournal.com]

I do at times become a bit angry in my responses to what I see as hypocrisy in the political realm. I figure that some will use the term anti-Semitic, that seems to be the defense used by a lot of supporters of Israel when confronting criticism. I've also probably been condemned to hell by some of the 'Christian' Right. I just write what I feel, and if it offends some one, sorry. I'm not one to follow political correctness.

Re: I don't hate Israel...

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

I'm not talking political correctness.

I'm talking about language bordering on hate speech. Taken a certain way by some people (not me, I will note), it sometimes might sound like you agree with the people who want Israel wiped off the planet.

Anger is all well and good, but words are powerful things. I am aware that people have died. But is more bloodshed the answer?

Sometimes I wonder if that is what you want. That's all I'm saying.

Re: I don't hate Israel...

[n6vfp.livejournal.com]

If my words are hate speech, then so be it. Israel has a right to exist as long as it does not feel it needs to subjugate those people who lived there before it came to exist. What I find that makes me angry is that we support Israel with billions of dollars which the bulk is in the form of military hardware. As we spend these billions, people in this country cannot afford health care or are living in poverty. Bloodshed is not the answer, but human rights needs to be respected. Most of the problems Israel faces are problems brought on by the past actions of the government and military. You don't make friends by bombing hospitals and shooting ambulances, or tearing out orchards or burning fields of grain.

I guess I can relate more to the people in Gaza than anyone in Israel.

Re: I don't hate Israel...

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

Nor do you make friends by throwing rocks at people or holding the view that Israel should be wiped off the face of the planet, along with EVERYONE who lives there.

I do not abide by the violence on either side. As I see it, both sides have provoked the other side and then justified violence. What does that usually end up with? More dead people. On both sides.

As for "before Israel existed"... there are some people who would argue that Israel has existed for centuries. Others argue that Palestine has as well.

Governments do a lot of stupid things. Including letting things happen so that THEY can gain political favour.

Entitlement is not Jewish or Palestinian... or Christian... but a lot of people have a sense of entitlement.

Personally, the only entitlement I feel I have is not to be treated like a fool or an idiot.

[i.livejournal.com]

AIPAC has way too much power, and Israel is allowed to get away with way too much.